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King ghidorah vs ghidorah

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A simple monster

MemberBaragonOct-01-2019 7:58 AM

This is a battle between Kotm ghidorah and the og ghidorah

Who do you think will win?

 

 

 

 

 


"That moment you realize your signature is a big meme"

 

41 Replies

TheGMan123

MemberTitanosaurusOct-02-2019 4:56 PM

I'm honestly just not seeing where you're getting any of these "advantages" from Showa Ghidorah.

He hasn't been shown experience in any kind of hurricane environment (Monsterverse Ghidorah very obviously has since it's a specific interaction he has with Earth-like atmospheres), he hasn't shown the kind of tactical acumen to focus fire, and he hasn't shown any level of power that would allow him to accurately and effectively hit Monsterverse Ghidorah.

He doesn't have the aerial agility needed to contend in a proper dogfight, he doesn't have the flexibility or strength to contend in melee, and he doesn't even have the more complex strategizing of Monsterverse Ghidorah like mid-strike slams and absorbing energy through bites when in need of a boost.

Monsterverse Ghidorah's actual abilities weren't boosted once he released that energy; he wasn't physically stronger or anything, just like how Monsterverse Godzilla's physical traits weren't amplified by the nuke. His regeneration works as normal, and Godzilla's strength works like normal.

There is NO point where Showa Ghidorah can win this bar a miracle. He just doesn't have enough power, intelligence, and/or coordination to effectively combat the more agile and powerful Monsterverse version. Now, if this were the Heisei Ghidorah who has similar size and strength, we'd have something to discuss, but right now there's no good case to be made for Showa Ghidorah that pans out in a majority of scenarios.

Gmkgoji

MemberRodanOct-02-2019 5:00 PM

You know, I'll take up a King Ghidorah fight.

Suggestions for a combatant?

Zwei Wing is the best singing duo. Change my mind.

TheGMan123

MemberTitanosaurusOct-02-2019 5:01 PM

Heisei King Ghidorah. Probably the most even matchup around.

TheLazyFish

MemberRodanOct-02-2019 5:29 PM

Ok, first of all, if the energy didn't boost his power, then why was he able to

a. pick up Godzilla when he never showed a feat even close to that in strength before, or even try that before

and more importantly, B. do it in the first place? If it offered no actual advantage instead of just that light show, then why do  it in the first place?

 

As for the tropical storm, it probably doesn't affect flight all that much in the first place if so many jets can fly through it so easily. Even if it did, Ghidorah himself wouldn't have been able to fly through it by your logic because he wouldn't have been used to it when he arrived on Earth and probably wouldn't have been able to fly. It's why he can't even do anything in the water. He's not used to it. Showa Ghidorah, on the other hand, is known to be quite adaptable due to being able to move pretty well underwater, being able to fly through ease on Earth, Venus, and the Xiliens' home planet.

 

The coordination thing is kind of a weird point. I mean... there's no reason to believe he CAN'T hold his heads in a single position, it just seems like he's jittery and doesn't usually do that. There's no actual evidence that he can't focus his beams, and if he couldn't then it would be almost impossible to hit an opponent from the air, a feat we see time and time again. There's absolutely no reason to believe that his body won't allow him to hold his neck in some sort of position, like any other animal or creature in the Godzilla universe. 

 

Ok, energy stealing isn't a complex strategy, it's an ability that Showa Ghidorah almost definitely doesn't have. Also, that point is absolutely pointless, Ghidorah only did that when Godzilla was practically unconscious/was lying on the floor.

 

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "mid strike slam", so could you clarify that? But, even then, that's MELEE, my point is that Showa wouldn't let it be a melee fight and make it more of a ranged fight, which is something he's been shown to do, instead of a melee fight. In a melee fight, no doubt Monsterverse would win. But with more tactics and range, Showa could probably take it. 

If people weren't lazy, we wouldn't try to be efficient. If we weren't efficient, we'd never get anything done.

TheGMan123

MemberTitanosaurusOct-02-2019 6:11 PM

Note that Monsterverse Ghidorah stunned Godzilla with his wing lightning AND THEN went for a talon grab rather than a neck grab. He had distance, time, and motive to finish the fight this way. Earlier, he was in CQC, Godzilla was actively able to fight back, and he had to think quickly.

We see that Godzilla himself didn't have any different physical stats even after getting amped; it was his Atomic Breath that got charged up. With Monsterverse Ghidorah, seeing as how the energy of Boston pales in comparison to a nuke and that his standard  Gravity Beams afterwards were no different later on, it's logical to assume that ONLY his lightning was amped in that quick burst.

With the hurricane, Monsterverse Ghidorah naturally creates these storms and was actively using them to terraform the Earth to his liking. My argument wasn't that Showa Ghidorah just couldn't navigate. It's merely that they would give him some manner of trouble with the winds and lightning. He's not in his element in them (the argument for adaptability doesn't count without the actual feats to back them up), and he's at a disadvantage because he wouldn't know how to properly navigate it compared to Monsterverse Ghidorah who just naturally inhabits the storm. He's lived for millions of years and came to Earth a long time ago; it's safe to assume he knows how to use it.

With regards to coordination, it's not about Showa Ghidorah not being capable of it. It's that he just DOESN'T, even in the face of overwhelming odds. It's his behavioural quirk, much like how Monsterverse Ghidorah likes to savour the moment and kill his opponents with a degree of pleasure. It's "stupidity" on his part as you put it in your argument, but you still justify it. The quirks of Monsterverse Ghidorah are just more easily remedied through his intelligence.

Showa Ghidorah doesn't show enough onscreen flight speed to truly evade Monsterverse Ghidorah, not enough behavioural coordination to attempt to focus down his beams, not enough power to do any damage that can't be regenerated from, and not enough intelligence to actually attempt a proper ranged game.

He might TRY to make it a ranged game, but he's lacking in the power department, Monsterverse Ghidorah has better ranged power due to his stronger Gravity Beams, and the larger dragon has a penchant for chasing down and engaging in melee anyways.

There is, quite literally, NO ADVANTAGE WHATSOEVER that Showa Ghidorah possesses. Not in intelligence, not in strength, not in speed and agility, not in durability, not in tactics. He's just an inferior overall fighter.

Trust me, I've done my fair share of VS. Debates in my days. I know how this song and dance goes.

TheLazyFish

MemberRodanOct-02-2019 7:09 PM

Well, Monsterverse Ghidorah couldn't even keep up with Emma Russel's car, he had to gravity beam it to get the ORCA. Showa Ghidorah is definitely known to be faster than a car.

 

Yeah, Boston doesn't have as much energy, but the thing you're not thinking about is energy consumption efficiency. Ghidorah probably uses energy more efficiently than Godzilla, or else Godzilla would have had atomic breath feats much more impressive than the electricity coming from Ghidorah's wings. Also, electricity and energy are probably his primary food sources, and he could very well metabolize food very differently to us due to being an alien. How much he eats could affect his physical strength. Also, we do see radiation affect Godzilla's physical strength, because when he absorbed Mothra's radiation he went fire, and then Ghidorah's gravity beams couldn't even push him back or make him flinch. So his regeneration and his ability to pick up Godzilla could very well have been affected. Also, the electricity isn't what made Godzilla not fight back, it was because he was tired/was about to go thermonuclear and was leaning on a building and panting. 

 

Actively using the storms is a bit of a stretch, it's more of a passive ability that follows him. Also, no, no he would not be used to it, because that storm doesn't follow him into outer space or anything, it just came as a result of him coming to Earth. And there are feats to back up Showa's adaptability, such as him being able to actually fly as soon as he reaches Earth, the Xilien planet, and Venus, despite them all containing different atmospheric compositions, temperature, gravity, etc. On Earth, he could move fairly easily in the water, despite never being in a liquid with the same buoyancy, composition, etc. Ghidorah can't even swim very well, let alone actually adapt quickly to such elements. I don't think a storm (not the same as a hurricane) that posed no problems for Rodan, the Monarch ship, and any of the jets flying around in the Ghidorah fight in D.C. AND Boston, then it shouldn't be much of a problem for Showa Ghidorah either. 

 

Also, no, we never see him chase down and engage in melee. Whatever he fought always came to fight him in melee too. Except for Emma Russel, who was in a car... and he couldn't catch up... and he had to gravity beam her. He's not that good at chasing. 

 

Monsterverse Ghidorah's "quirk" is quite different from Showa's. Showa's was not incredibly important to tactics, so he never bothered to keep them straight. Monsterverse Ghidorah, however, completely missed out, numerous times, a battle tactic that could have won him his fight against Godzilla. Not something that's even too hard too come up with, just what an average spammer in a multiplayer game does. But, as I said before, if Showa Ghidorah wanted to do it, he could, or else he would almost never hit his opponents. He just needs to aim for the heads. Most regular animals always go for the head or neck, or some vital area that will assure them the kill, so of course Showa Ghidorah would as well.

 

Also, just because you've done your fair share of V.S. debates, doesn't necessarily mean you're right. That's like saying because one person has done more debates than some other person, even though the other person knows much more about the subject, the guy who did more debates wins because they did more debates, even if they were wrong every time. Not saying that's even close to the case here, but just saying that it's not a point in the slightest. 

If people weren't lazy, we wouldn't try to be efficient. If we weren't efficient, we'd never get anything done.

JHT

MemberBaragonOct-02-2019 7:26 PM

TheLazyFish actually Godzilla can absorb each other's atomic breath because they are bio atomic Ghidorah is not bio atomic so he can not absorb Godzillas atomic breath but he can vampirize his energy just like keizer Ghidorah did to final war Godzilla and like death Ghidorah did to mothra leo in rebirth of mothra and monsterverse Ghidorahs gravity beams could blast straight through several buildings in Boston almost like shin Godzillas atomic breath showa Ghidorahs gravity beams just blew little chunks off of buildings. Plus it was implied that showa Ghidorah was a pawn buy alien invaders then when his mind control was severed he would still attack but he would be disoriented and when he wasn't he acted more on brawn than brain monsterverse Ghidorah appears to take the place of the alien invader who orchestrates attacks destroy all monsters style with lesser kaiju almost exterminating humanity if not for Madison using the orca to make him think he was being challenged by a rival until Godzilla arrived to challenge him yet again.

JHT

MemberBaragonOct-02-2019 7:34 PM

And I am more confident that monsterverse Ghidorah would use his own storms for surprise/stealth attacks kind of like how toothless hid in the clouds to repeatedly ambush the red death because he did fight in the sky when he was faced with aerial rivals specifically rodan and if you notice before he tried to drain Godzillas energy he flicked his tongues at him meaning he sensed something about Godzilla implying he could detect the energy building up inside of him and he was trying to drain it so Godzilla wouldn't have the strength to keep fighting or recover.

TheGMan123

MemberTitanosaurusOct-03-2019 4:51 AM

Again, you're reading the wrong kind of context.

Without any actual feats that point to Showa G being able to effectively navigate a Category 6 hurricane (being "adaptable" does not count if said adaptability doesn't actually include a hurricane or storm), we can't say he'd simply adapt to it. We CAN say that he's adaptable to Earth-like atmospheres (going by the films' depictions being Earth-like), water, and space. That's it. That's what's confirmed.

I'm not saying he'd be thrown around or anything; just that it's NOT an advantage to him, because it's not an element he's known to be found. You also are literally lying about Monsterverse G not being used to it as it actively ignores the plot of him using the storms to terraform Earth and his simple age. It's more likely that him creating storms upon entering atmospheric conditions is an intentional biological trait the species uses to its advantage.

As for the flight speed argument, do bear in mind he was literally flying right above the ground AND wing-walking without proper lift; he was also just plain pissed off at the Alpha signal. In the air proper, he could match Rodan in an aerial collision course in speed and obviously moves with the storm at high speeds.

With regards to Showa G's Gravity Beam, do note he NEVER has demonstrated that he bothers to focus it down; it's not an observed behavioural trait, and indeed he displays the opposite with his wildly flailing heads. I'm not saying he CAN'T, just that it's not likely for him to do it simply due to the way he behaves on average. He hasn't displayed any intent or intelligence in doing this against ANY foes he's fought; not Godzilla, not Rodan, not Anguirus, not even Zone Fighter.

Going along with that, as demonstrated above, Monsterverse G went after Rodan once the latter had briefly retreated, and he obviously chased down Emma. He was also prepared to chase down Mark and the others when they were leaving Boston. He is more than used to chasing down his prey.

As for the absorption, due note that Godzilla had not displayed increased physical strength from his own absorption of the nuke. He still stalemates Monsterverse G in a collision, creating the shockwave like in Antarctica; it's bigger because the 2 Titans had greater distance and speed to build up momentum for the force of their collision. He even had a constantly glowing rack of backspines; Ghidorah didn't even retain his orange glow after absorbing Boston's power grid. Also note that Burning Godzilla is very specifically a state only attainable through Mothra; it's a unique symbiosis ability.

Overall, there's just a very poor argument to be made for Showa G's side. I've put up with a fair amount of BS from people who don't properly read context, narrative intent, and simple physics logic in debates. I've honed my craft in objective analysis, and it's just frustrating to deal with the likes of an argument like this where there's really only one clear answer.

Could Showa G win in maybe 1 specific circumstance? Yes, but even that's unlikely due to the overwhelming number of advantages that Monsterverse G has. He can't hit hard enough even with sustained ranged attacks to truly make a dent (sustained beam use can't even crack open Showa Godzilla's face), he can't keep up with the better agility of Monsterverse G who can simply swerve his necks out of the way, he can't intelligently plan out well enough to take advantage of his larger and superior counterpart's weak areas, and he just can't take any hits well enough from the overwhelming power of the Legendary Titan.

Sorry if I'm getting a bit flustered, but I hate arguments like these where it keeps going on and on and nobody wants to just give in. It feels like the answer should be obvious, and yet here we are still.

TheLazyFish

MemberRodanOct-03-2019 7:49 AM

"Actively lying" tad harsh and untrue... JEEZ

" I've put up with a fair amount of BS from people who don't properly read context, narrative intent, and simple physics logic in debates. I've honed my craft in objective analysis, and it's just frustrating to deal with the likes of an argument like this where there's really only one clear answer." Once again, not a point.

 

"Sorry if I'm getting a bit flustered, but I hate arguments like these where it keeps going on and on and nobody wants to just give in." Yeah I agree, I'm just going to stop responding. At this point, we're kind of just restating the same points over and over again hoping the other person finally gets it.

 

If people weren't lazy, we wouldn't try to be efficient. If we weren't efficient, we'd never get anything done.

Gmkgoji

MemberRodanOct-04-2019 11:09 AM

Zwei Wing is the best singing duo. Change my mind.

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