Godzilla vs Gamera, who would actually win!

Once again, I don't get where the idea that Gamera could wear Godzilla down with fireballs comes from. I mean, they may cause bigger explosions than many energy beams that have hurt him, but the explosions caused by energy beams are just a side effect of the actual beam itself, meaning they would be a lot more powerful than, say, a bomb that causes an equally large explosion. Gamera's fireballs, however, appear to basically just be big bombs made of plasma rather than concentrated energy beams, thus why they take several hits to kill monsters like the Gyaos that can be harmed by missiles (if they couldn't be, then why would they put so much effort into avoising them?). I mean, I'm not saying they're weak or anything, explosions of that size are very powerful... but, can you honestly say that they're more powerful than nuclear bombs? Because that's what has to be beaten in order to harm Godzilla. And I know somone's going to say, "But can you say that the Muto's claws are more powerful than nuclear bombs?" Well, it's just a general rule of kaiju films that monsters, at least of similar levels of durability, can harm each other with their claws, teeth, horns, etc. It kind of makes sense that very sharp objects made of materials just as tough as or tougher than Godzilla's own body being thrust into him with extreme force could penetrate his skin, but you just can't apply that same kind of logic to what are essentially just big bombs that happen to be coming from another monster. So I still have to say that the only methods Gamera has of harming him are maybe his teeth and claws (I say maybe because they are probably less tough and can be used with less force than the Muto's claws) and the Mana Blast, and I've already adressed why those will not be enough to give him victory. I really like Gamera, and I think the Heisei trilogy is a lot better than most Godzilla movies, but he is just massively outclassed by most incarnations of Godzilla in almost every way.

Um how do you know the MUTOs were as tough skin wise as Godzilla, their one ability specifically made it so they never had to take missiles annd shots from the miltary. The only shits they took were from the helicopter, machine guns. That and as I said it's not as though the new Godzilla shrugged off the missiles as he broke through the bridge to avoid further shots, so seems like your putting a large amount of speculation in terms of Godzilla's toughness.

@DURP004 Well, aside from the fact that there was at least one moment I can specifically remember where the female Muto is hit by a missile and is unharmed, and probably others that I can't remember, there's also the fact that Godzilla and the Mutos share the exact same origin, being natural creatures that evolved in the same way and in the same era, and there is never any indication that Godzilla is significantly more durable than the other monsters of that universe, just bigger, stronger, and fiercer. Sure, their EMP ability probably made it very difficult for the military to attack them, but the purpose (plot-wise) of the EMP ability was not to make it so that the military couldn't kill them, but to raise the stakes of the plot; if they were able to breed, there would be hundreds of monsters constantly emitting EMPs crawling all over the Earth, effectively "sending us back to the stone age."

I'm not "putting a large amount of speculation in terms of Godzilla's toughness." He is directly shown surviving at ground zero of a nuclear explosion. As for the bridge scene, I tried to look it up on Youtube to verify this, but all the clips I could find ended with Godzilla rising up and blocking the missiles; however, based on what the clips did show and my memory of the full scene, Godzilla had no reaction to the missiles at first, but, when some of them hit his gills, they seemed to annoy him like a mosquito bite, so he basically just said "f*ck it" and smashed through the bridge rather than taking the time to go around it. Even if the missiles actually did cause him some pain, that still puts his durability above Gamera, who cried out in pain and fell to the ground when hit by a barrage of missiles.

Besides, your comment was arguing against a tiny and unimportant part of my argument. All I was saying was that, although it is probable that Gamera's teeth and claws are frailer than those of the Mutos, I was giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming that he could pierce Godzilla's skin with them. I have still seen no compelling arguments that Gamera stands a snowball's chance in hell in this battle.

Just to point something out in term of Godzilla's toughness in both the showa and heisei Mechagodzilla anchors and missiles pierced his skin and quit deeply. That's man made  weapondry hurting godzilla. Mechagodzilla took godzilla down with mainly his missiles, and eye beams and as for the missiles which based off the explosions are roughly the same as manmade ones and the anchors were able to shoot all the way into his secondary brain which is obviously fairly deep in his body. So the idea that mechagodzilla's missiles, and not just the piercing ones did a large amount of damage and in both showing of him in the showa he had Godzilla on the ropes, it's obvious that eventually Gamera's fireball would have the same effect. The idea that Gyaos would be completely destroyed by a few, but Godzilla would take the same shots and not flinch is putting a lot of faith in Godzilla.

As I said some Godzilla versions would win but I seriously doubt heisei Gamera would lose to the showa Godzilla who in most cases required another monster'a help whenever he fought someone.  

Who ever said we were arguing about Showa Godzilla here? This whole discussion seems to have been focusing on Legendary Godzilla. I'm pretty sure I did say at some point that this would be a whole different story if it was Showa Godzilla we were talking about, but this thread is about Godzilla and Gamera in general, and almost every incarnation of Godzilla is simply immune to all real human weapons. Heisei Mechagodzilla's anchors and the full metal missiles used on G2000, for example, may have been man-made weapons, but they were both fictional weapons whose power cannot be quantified, and which worked in a way that seems to imitate attacks from other monsters: very hard, sharp objects being thrust with extreme force. The mere fact that they were invented at all implies that normal weaponry must be ineffective against him, whereas Gamera was harmed by run-of-the-mill missiles. Sure, Heisei Gamera could probably beat Showa Godzilla with his fireballs if Mechagodzilla's seemingly less powerful missiles could harm him (which is strange, since missiles had never been effective against him before then) but that's about it. With any other combination of different incarnations of Godzilla and Gamera, I would go with Godzilla every time.

I've no doubts that Godzilla would win this battle, don't get me wrong. However, Linkzilla, I think we're uderratign Gamera too much here. We can't qualitatively judge the effects of Gamera's moves on Godzilla without taking examples from other monsters. And, as per Kaiju rules, relative size plays an important role. Gamera may be a bit smaller, but that does mean he's a faster combatant in close quarters (ironically enough, despite being a turtle).

On a skin-for-skin basis, Godzilla likely does have the tougher hide, but it isn't invincible, and it's not always about being able to simply tank everything. Gamera is a strategist, just like Godzilla, only moreso. Being sheer atomized plasma means more contained force within each blast over the same blast radius than any nuclear weapon at ground zero in a similar radius. They WILL cause damage, even if it is minimal.

Not only that, but they can be rapid fired, and carry enough concussive force to likely catch Godzilla off balance, especially as a surprise attack. It will take more than plasma bursts to take down the King though, I know that much. I'm not saying Gamera is Godzilla's strongest opponent ever, but he will present a very convincing challenge to the throne, being one of the strongest, fastest (for his size), and most intelligent Kaiju around.

I don't think it makes much sense to say that his plasma blasts would be more powerful than a nuke of similar size. There's plenty of "sheer atomized plasma" in any nuclear explosion as well; in fact, they're so powerful that they actually create plasma in the millions of degrees Celsius at ground zero, whereas Gamera's fireballs are just spheres of pre-existing plasma that hap-pen to explode. They still take multiple hits to kill monsters that can be harmed by missiles, and you'd think something more powerful than a nuke would just vaporize those monsters instantly.

I also have to point out that, although Gamera is very strong compared to the monsters he fights, he and the other monsters in his universe all weigh in the hundreds of tons, whereas Godzilla monsters weigh tens of thousands. So, there goes being one of the strongest monsters around.

@Linkzilla Actually, lately, the official weights have been changed again and again, so there now isn't any fully official weights for the monsters, which means we make the assumption on general size overall. Also, just because a more visible reaction is seen with hits from military ordinance doesn't denote actual damage. More like reacting more strongly to flies than the likes of Godzilla and his foes. Again, no military ordinance ever actually harms the monsters of Gamera's universe. Therefore, we can't use that as an actual factor in terms of durability and damage potential.

"Reacting more strongly" is a bit of an understatement. I don't know about you, but when I'm annoyed by flies, I don't typically react by screaming in pain and falling to the ground (Gamera's reaction to being hit by missiles), desperately running away from them and ducking behind obstacles to dodge them (Super Gyaos' reaction to having missiles fired at it), or losing entire bloody limbs (What happens to Legion when she is hit by missiles). Those are more how I would react to being shot at. Sure, when Gamera is hit by the missiles, you don't see any visible marks left on his body, but it's pretty standard in kaiju films for the creators to not waste their scarce time and money on putting minor injuries on the suits; generally you're supposed to tell they've been hurt by their reactions, and Gamera's reaction to a military assault certainly indicates that he was hurt by it.

godzilla would win

I have been reading all of the comments in this topic at least twice and from all the data I have researched about Gojira and Gamera I have finally come up with the winner of this compitition. AND THE WINNER IS.....Gojira. I'm not even going to explain why it came down to that vote. I have seen most of the Gamera movies and all of the Gojira movies, but Gamera fighting godzilla is the equivalent of a human peasent throwing rocks at a giant. Gamera is the peasent and Gojira is the giant. Gojira is the king of the monsters hands down. And the reason why the MUTO claws hurt godzilla were not only because they were sharp but if you looked really closely you could see that the muto's were also shocking godzilla with thier EMP powers. Gojira was being electricuted and clawed at at the same time. But when ever I hear anybody say that Gamera has any hope of laying a scratch on godzilla, it just makes me want to laugh tell the point were i'm crying. And yes the muto's can wistand missles I have seen the movie 4 times now that I saw the japanese version. Gamera on the other hand can't. Oh **** I just explained why gojira won, YOU DIDN"T SEE ANYTHING!