Favorite Reiwa Series Godzilla (So far)

HinikunaGoji,
They seem to have been a loose homage to Terror of MechaGodzilla.

The false advertising of MechaGodzilla is definitely my most bothersome issue with the anime trilogy, but like the false advertising of 2014, it's been long enough that I don't care anymore. Both stand on their own story apart from the marketing pretty well.

 HinikunaGoji

As dumb as the whole "Mechagodzilla city" idea is, they could of done something unique and creative. They could have created something new and it could have been very memorable, the problem is that they didn't even try to do that, they just turned Mechagodzilla into a city for no reason and had it barely do anything. The other thing that bugs me about is that the movies build up the idea of it having an advanced artificial intelligence, yet everything that done by Mechagodzilla is directly controlled by the aliens. So what was the point of giving it artificial intelligence? 

In my opinion anime Mechagodzilla is the worst interpretation of the character, because it barely does anything. It's built to be the ultimate defense against Godzilla, yet when Godzilla attacks and MG is sent to fight him, it just refuses to activate and gets destroyed by Godzilla. Later they find out that it wasn't completely destroyed and has been rebuilding itself for the past 20,000 years to become the "Ultimate Godzilla Destroying Weapon", only for it to turn itself into a city that uses a force field to hide from Godzilla. Then when Godzilla finds MG city, it just allows itself to be completely destroyed, barely attempting to fight back. "Ultimate Godzilla Destroying Weapon" my a**...

"Anime Mechagodzilla, Go Destroy Godzilla!!!" 

SasquaDash

I was with you until this point, “The other thing that bugs me about is that the movies build up the idea of it having an advanced artificial intelligence, yet everything that done by Mechagodzilla is directly controlled by the aliens. So what was the point of giving it artificial intelligence?” 
The artificial intelligence helped further the themes that Mechagodzilla presented in this interpretation. It not only showed nanometal as some dangerous thing, but giving it perceived intelligence. Giving a villain motivation other than, The plot told me to is always a good thing. And by making Nanometal/MG intelligeny, it can portray it more as a villain manipulating the Bilasaludo, which again is something new the anime provided into the godzilla franchise. The bilasaludo weren’t in control, they were pawns.

I’ve noticed some things people seem to get wrong about these films. The biggest one is the nature of the exif. People seem to think their all faith based, when in reality that is completely wrong. If you listen to anything Metphies says, then you know they can literally prove ghidorah exists with math and science. 

As much as I say I don’t like the execution, I really do like these movies.

SasquaDash,
They established that the reason it was hiding, however, was so it could rebuild itself. I also think "allows itself to be destroyed" is a stretch considering Haruo opened fire on it, so it couldn't respond or propagate. The point that he finally landed on was that it might potentially be a grater threat to literal humanity than Godzilla.

HinikunaGoji,
The Exif work more as a cult than a religion. The Planet Eater has a literal "drink the Kool-aid," scene more evocative of Jonestown.

I always found that aspect fascinating, because they seem so convincing until their true motives rain down--Such is the way of most famous cults.

HinikunaGoji

What I meant with the artificial intelligence argument was that they establish that MG can think for itself, yet all of its actions are directly controlled by the Bilusaludo. It never actually thinks for itself, so what was the point of establishing that idea if they never use it?

G. H. (Gman)

I'll admit my statement of it "letting itself be destroyed" was a bit exaggerated, but at the same time both Godzilla and Haruo attack it and it barely does anything to prevent its own destruction. 

SasquaDash

As I tried to say, the bilasaludo are doing what it wants, it doesn’t need to do all the work when others can do it for it.

I will say, the kaiju they didn’t botch in the anime, is Godzilla himself. He had a very commanding screen presence 

The A.I. notion is pretty vague. It seemed to have enough awareness to fortify itself into an entire city, but not to become battle ready. The main issue with the anime trilogy isn't the monster battles, or even the ideas, but the way it subverts logical storytelling for the sake of symbolism. I'm not entirely opposed to it, as it works for stuff like the ending of Shin Godzilla. But moments like those are tight and isolated for the audience to chew on.

The idea that MechaGodzilla is an A.I., in so far that it represents a sort of god to the bilasaludo that must be interpreted and sacrificed to via their own faith (in technology), leaves some logical holes hanging that an entire two movies had the chance to fill. It works for Urobuchi's themes though and the ironic parallels of the bilasaludo's technological practice and paganism isn't lost on me.

Also, I suppose it's better than lip servicing a shoehorned life-vs-artificial-life theme into a movie that had no A.I. Looking at you Godzilla vs. MechaGodzilla II.

Ultima, no question. Singular Point was most loyal to the OGs in my opinion. Shin is just the most disgusting thing I have ever seen and while I accepted the Earth Godzilla design, that particular trilogy kinda sucked. Like seriously, WHY is mechagodzilla a city and WHY, just WHY is Ghidorah so underwhelming. He's supposed to be the titan usurper, the One Who is Many, the Devil With Three Heads! All we got was three really long necks and the only kaiju battle that bored me.

Now, going to Godzilla Ultima, I was admittedly a little wary of the whole evolution thing after Shin, but once I saw Ultima, my doubts were gone. I just sat there in awe as he arose, walking through the city to the booming melody of his original theme, which now has VOCALS (I actually got goosebumps). His thighs were a bit thicc, but I'll let it slide. out of the three Reiwa versions, Ultima is by far the most loyal to the eras before, and that's what really helped me make my choice.

TitanMaster,
I find the anime King Ghidorah on of the most terrifying and hopeless incarnations ever. He was quite literally unbeatable with a host driving his animosity.

After seeing Singular Point, my final choice is Shin Godzilla, no contest. So far it's the only entry in the Reiwa series that I fully enjoyed. Plus, I found that version to be the most interesting.

G. H. (Gman)

I agree completely. I love the idea of Ghidorah as an eldritch unknowable entity, Cosmic horror works well in the kaiju genre

SasquaDash

I disagree. I love shin, but Ultima completely took me by surprise. I wasn't very stoked about the idea of another evolving godzilla and loved the execution and showa monster esque designs. Im not mad about seeing these kaiju on their own because in and of themselves they are very bland, (and varan is one of my favorite kaiju ever.) The show looked so showa-ey and I love it. Godzilla himself seems more intelligent, then the more animalistic godzillas we've been getting, (Shin, MOnsterverse, HEsei, Kyriugoji). THis godzilla also felt very apocalyptic and godlike to me, which is what ive always really wanted with a godzilla. 

HinikunaGoji

Ultima had a cool design and there were some cool moments and concepts, but a lot of these moments and ideas were pretty much just copied from Shin Godzilla, and to be honest, I felt that they worked better in Shin than they did in Singular Point.

I think Godzilla's metamorphosis worked better in Shin because the forms felt like a realistic transformation, starting as an aquatic creature that grows limbs, looses its gills and begins to adapt to a terrestrial lifestyle, growing and changing its form to defend itself from threats. It reminded me of the metamorphosis of a tadpole becoming a frog. Singular Point's metamorphosis didn't make much sense, it starts out as a more aquatic Titanosaurus, randomly becomes Varan, cocoons itself and becomes a weird Godzilla/Python/Dinosaur thing with living blood tentacles, and then just randomly becomes Godzilla. Nothing about that transformation felt organic.

I liked that Godzilla Ultima felt apocalyptic, the problem was that his inclusion kind of felt like an afterthought. The plot seemed more focused on its physics lectures and other concepts, to the point where Godzilla felt like he was pushed to the background and at times it felt like the series forgot about him. 

SasquaDash

I could say the afterthought about godzilla 2014, but I dont because both use the cut away very well. I enjoyed the waiting and godzilla is probably talked about more in SP than 2014. The two first forms of shin godzilla dont feel very godzilla like to me. Most of the physics conversations as of ep. 5 and onward talk about godzilla and the catastrophe I beleive.

Godzilla was a creature from a higher demension, and has most of the abilities of the other kaiju such as rewriting his dna and seeing into the future. The evolution didn't need to be natural. Its a blend of incomplete and complete metamorphasis making the organism seem more complex. 

Aquatilis barely reminds me of Titanosaurus, Coloration isnt enough to justify that for me. 

I do agree that the evolution didnt work as well as in shin, and I believe it was included for two reasons. One Toho might have mandated it because it gives opportunity for Bandai to make more toys. And Two, it was to get around Toho saying that Godzilla should appear as soon as possible.

HinikunaGoji

The coloration of Aquatilis wasn't the only similarity that it had with Titanosaurus. The head shape, eyes, fins on head and tail, and antennae are identical to Titanosaurus. 

Aquatilis pretty much looked like a cross between Titanosaurus and a Mosasaur. It has an interesting design but as a form of Godzilla it doesn't work. Aside from the fins on it's back, it looks nothing like Godzilla! I find it funny that fans gave 1998 crap for not looking like the classic Godzilla, yet this is somehow fine.

SasquaDash

I like the 98' design, And gmk goji was also supposed to have that stance. Aybe it gets away with not looking much like goji because its a different form.

I dont like titano much but aquatilis is my favorite form besides ultima. Ive sculpted it twice because of this.

"I find it funny that fans gave 1998 crap for not looking like the classic Godzilla, yet this is somehow fine."

Given 1998 was the final design and Aquatilis was merely a prelude to something more traditional than 1998, I don't think the same logic applies.

G. H. (Gman)

1998 and Aquatilis are both meant to be a form of Godzilla. Even with the argument that it was just the prelude to Godzilla, the designs for Aquatilis and Amphibia look nothing like Godzilla and instead look like knock-off versions of more recognizable kaiju (I could also say that about the other kaiju in Singular Point as well). 

With that logic you could argue that 1998 was the prelude to the animated series version, which acted more like the traditional Godzilla, was stronger and had atomic breath. In fact, according to Tristar and the early script for the unmade sequel, 1998 was supposed to be the first in a trilogy, in which their Godzilla was going to continue to mutate/evolve and become more like the classic Godzilla, so with that logic, Godzilla 1998's design is no different than Singular Point's early forms (hell, Terrestris actually has some similarities to 1998's design, with its more theropod-like stance and the fins on its back curving forward). 

They're both radically different interpretations of Godzilla, except that the 1998 design gets bashed for being different, while the early forms in Singular Point gets praised for being different. The only major difference is that one is made by an American studio and the other is made by a Japanese studio. It honestly makes me question:

If 1998's plot was similar to Singular Point would it still be hated for being different?

And if 1998 had been made by Toho (no other changes) would it be praised for being different and ambitious?

SasquaDash

I will have to say, I dont agree with saying 1998 is a prelude to the series zilla. I would agree with you if they were the same individual. With your gradual biological evolution idea for each trilogy, should the first individual be godzilla, and the later ones be called something else? Mutation isnt quite the right word for your argument.

1998 is a terrible movie, even without zilla. From fans who parise the movie, the only praise from them ive ever heard i the design. The movie doesnt seem to know whether its uper goofy or serious and lead too many tonal problems.

One other  about changing godzilla and being different is its execution. Shin Godzilla and singular point do this well. Shin uses the evolution to reinforce themes, and the form in SP reinforce the scientific concepts and increase tension. Both help the narrative. 98 just want to be realistic, (goofiness detracts this) and nothing else. THis does not benefit the story.

Most of the best godzilla movies arent dependent on godzilla. 1954 could have easily replaced goji with several oncoming nukes. Sp could have replaced godzilla with just the end of thw world because of archetype. This peoblem exit in one of my favorite goji movie KOTM. I love this movie but I feel this is its real problem, the human story is entirely dependent on the kaiju story. THe story for humans doughterty came up with just replaced the kaiju with natural disasters and fails to explain emmas justification for setting them off. 

The mot unnessecary part of SP i the kumongas it doent move along the story, just is action.

HinikunaGoji

Personally, I felt that the most unnecessary part of Singular Point was that giant "Shadow Rodan" that randomly shows up. All that happens in that scene is that it flies into the city and Godzilla shoots it out of the air. They never explain where it came from, what its connection to the other Rodans, or why it was trying to fight Godzilla. Heck, they don't even show it or mention it again afterwards. The scene pretty much had no purpose, you could completely cut that scene out and nothing would change. The whole scene kind of reminded me of the giant condor fight scene in Godzilla vs the Sea Monster. 

SasquaDash

THat scene is unnescary as well. Funny that i didnt even remember it. It does hint atomic breath kind of.

SasquaDash,
The difference is nothing about the TriStar follow up transpired outside of The Animated Series. I'd also submit that most people actually think the TriStar design is worthwhile, just not as Godzilla--Although it was received much better in The Animated Series since he acted more like the character.

The Singular Point forms have faced division, but those in its corner typically praise them for being homages to prior kaiju. I think since it evolved into something more recognizable as Godzilla, it gets the pass. Had they not it would have received a much different reaction from fans.

Meanwhile, the TriStar design did not actively mutate--That was not part of its biology nor story. Yet even still, it was accepted better when The Animated Series premiered. I think the more pertinent question you should ask is had the TriStar film actually been good, yet retained the same design, would it have been better accepted? And given the reaction to The Animated Series, it seems very probable.

The Godzilla earth trilogy was disappointing. Much like Pacific Rim Uprising. Shin was like the OG Pacific Rim. A very good movie. Except that Shin wasn’t connected to the Godzilla Earth trilogy.