Godzilla 2

@DURP004

Do I believe that Legendary Godzilla can beat Ghidorah on his own? That answer is a resounding No, due to the fact Rodan and Mothra will be in the next movie with him. 

Okay, we don't know for sure that Rodan and Mothra will be allied with Godzilla. All we know is that Legendary has been given permission to use these characters..

And by giving a resounding thumbs down to the possibility of Godzilla beating Ghidorah on his own, what does that say about Godzilla?

I'd rather have the  solo Godzilla who can take on 2-3 opponents at a time rather than the one who appeared in the Showa films you mentioned. Don't get me wrong, the way Godzilla and those films were handled worked for it's time. But eventually Godzilla evolved to where he became more unstoppable and a true king. You don't want people debating who the true king is after Ghidorah gets beat by 3 monsters. 

@Ray Burrberry,

Nothing can be further than the truth about Godzilla. The fact is the showa came first. Ghidorah was so strong in those movies Godzilla had to get help from others in order to beat Ghidorah. Now the Ghidorah in the heisei films is actually lesser in terms of toughness. It may be taller and heavier, but it wasn't that space demon. It was created by the atomic bomb the same way Godzilla was in 1954. Godzilla in the 1991 film was created by modern day atomic, nuclear energy making him bigger and far more powerful than the original. Godzilla was on the brink of defeat against the Mutos if that explosion didn't occur. 

Now, we do know that Mothra and Rodan are in it with king ghidorah, but my guess is they'll fight each other before ghidorah arrives. You're right that Godzilla did evolve to be able to handle his own against Ghidorah in other films, but who is to say that Ghidorah won't be like that space demon he was in his debut film? 

If the company of Legendary is smart, they'll make Ghidorah seem indestructible. It will make things more interesting in terms of how the other monsters will beat him. It won't be a remake of Ghidorah the three headed monster. You have to remember that Gareth Edwards is going for that realistic approach. 

"And by giving a resounding thumbs down to the possibility of Godzilla beating Ghidorah on his own, what does that say about Godzilla?"

It says he's a monster that can do what it takes to win. Listen if we're going to root for a monster and feel empathy for him the next development is logically pitting him against something that outclasses him. There's nothing wrong with that and it makes Godzilla's battle both more suspensful and more interesting. He's borderline heroic in these films-- Plenty of heroes get help defeating their foes.

"I'd rather have the  solo Godzilla who can take on 2-3 opponents at a time rather than the one who appeared in the Showa films you mentioned. Don't get me wrong, the way Godzilla and those films were handled worked for it's time. But eventually Godzilla evolved to where he became more unstoppable and a true king."

You mean like how Biollante rose his tempature and sent him back to the sea? Or how Godzilla needed human intervention in order to beat Heisei King Ghidorah? Or how he couldn't stop Mecha-King Ghidorah in Tokyo? Or how two giant butterflies dumped him in the ocean and he decided not to immediately return? Or how he needed help to beat SpaceGodzilla from G-Force? Or how Kiryu beat him twice?

This "unstoppable true king" nonsense is the dumbest, most ridiculous, cockamamie excuse to forfeit a potentially more interesting battle yet. I'd rather have an interesting storyline and suspensful stakes that make me wonder how Godzilla will ever be able to win the battle instead of resigning myself to a confident win so we can call Godzilla "unstoppable" or a "true king". That's ridiculous. It's also bad plotting.

This is one reason why the early Showa films are so much better. Instead of fan pandering just to make Godzilla look strong, they actually put him in situations/battles where the stakes were against him.

"You don't want people debating who the true king is after Ghidorah gets beat by 3 monsters."

In 61 long years this hasn't happened, why would it now?

I mean, pretty much this post above me.

@GMAN2887

This "unstoppable true king" nonsense is the dumbest, most ridiculous , cockamamie excuse to forfeit a potentially more interesting battle yet.

Thanks for putting that so eloquently GMAN. You know, up until this point I've been enjoying a nice little debate with you guys without implying that anyone's opinion is dumb and ridiculous.

I respect your opinion and take on the subject as well. 

Well, nice debating with you. 

Ray Burrberry,
Although that does seem directly stated at you, I meant it more as a generalization that you may or may not have been a part of and I apologize. That doesn't take away from the fact that I believe this is a poor reason to forfeit a potentially more interesting conflict in any film.

And by giving a resounding thumbs down to the possibility of Godzilla beating Ghidorah on his own, what does that say about Godzilla?

The same thing that every Godzilla's had. Name one series that Godzilla's gone without any help, and won. If you look most of the time Godzilla gets no help those are the movies where he loses. King Kong vs Godzilla, Mothra vs Godzilla, Godzilla vs Biollante, Godzilla vs Mothra, Tokyo SOS just to name a few. In all those movies he got no help and lost, compared to the movies where either monsters or humans intervened to help him in some way which always comes out as wins. You seem to associate assistance with Showa, but truth is every series he's gotten help. Showa, Heisei, Millennium, and now Legendary.

But eventually Godzilla evolved to where he became more unstoppable and a true king. You don't want people debating who the true king is after Ghidorah gets beat by 3 monsters

Are we debating if Godzilla is the king now, because as I said he's always gotten help with wins, and generally is solo in losses.

Not starting an argument or anything but, I think you all are missing the elements on how and why Godzilla was defeated in those movies. Tokyo s.o.s. it was 3 against 1. Mothra vs Godzilla 2 against 1. Godzilla vs Mothra in 92, took 2 others to beat him. A loss is a loss but, when it takes more than 1 to beat you, that's what makes you king.

As far as Biollante, I look at it as a tie. They rose Godzillas temperature first and asked if he was immune to the A.N.E.B? Plus, Godzilla shot his breath on the lower jaw, then directly at her throat. Maybe not as bad as the female muto but she does take the shot. He then walked away. Just saying.

I consider Biollante a loss. Godzilla keeled over and Biollante was still standing. If we're not going to count that because human intervention rose Godzilla's temperature, then we have to take away all of Godzilla's wins that were won out of human intervention as well-- That includes Legendary's.

I think the real reason Godzilla gets no help in a given scenario is because he's the villain he's supposed to lose. When he's the monster we're cheering for the stakes are stacked against him and he needs help. Again this all comes down to dramatic writing-- Something I hope is looked at over pandering fan service.

@Gman2887,

You left out the part that Godzilla starred at Biollante for a couple of seconds to see if she was going to do anything. She was left standing, true, but Godzilla is a creature of intelligence. I think he knew she was done and decided to walk away. I do agree with what you said though. What it comes down to is how the viewer looks at it. 

When we cheer Godzilla the stacks are always against him, and when he is the villain, he has to lose. I agree wholeheartedly bro. 

I never got that at all from the scene. I figured his temperature had gone up and he was just drowsy. Didn't look like Biollante was done.

I mean, if he didn't know she was done, she would have attacked him back. She had to be done because she eventually died and disintegrated. Again, I'm not debating or making an argument. This is just how I saw it. Even to this day. I actually watched it before I tweeted destroyah last night. I'm all up for doing a live commentary on instead this Sunday if you're interested. :)

@GMAN2887

Hey thanks for the apology. Truly appreciated. 

I really enjoy the discussions on here. You all present great and informative stuff including perspectives that I've never considered before. Fun stuff!

My comments are really just concerns and the hope that Godzilla won't get relegated to supporting player in his own films, similar to how Batman took at backseat to Nicholson's Joker in that film. That was one of the criticisms that I heard about and agree with about Godzilla 2014 - that there appeared to be more MUTOS than the title character. 

^It is a concern I agree. And seeing as it's already happened with the 2014 film I wouldn't be shocked if it happened again. I don't think Godzilla taking out King Ghidorah would improve that though. He took out both MUTOs in 2014, but the fact is much of the film still focused on those monsters.

Double post.

King Ghidorah should be immense and powerful, seemingly undefeatable. I'm thinking he'll be  a bad guy, terrifying. It would make sense that his physical attributes (height, wingspan) be reflected in his powers. There should be gale force winds. The gravity beams would be nice, especially with what Legendary is capable of marshalling in terms of VFX/SPX.

I hope there's a lot of monster action, early on too. If Godzilla 2 hits the ground running, so to speak, I'll be happy. I think a lot of other people, fans and general moviegoers, will be also. I'm capable of appreciating a suspenseful build up as much as anyone. But, as Admiral Stenz said, "The cat's out of the bag, Doctor. No more secrets."

If there's suspense and intrigue, it should be employed more in the human narrative centering on Monarch, its clandestine operations, deception and role in the cover up regarding Godzilla's existence and that of the other monsters. Accordingly, I would like to see the characters of Dr. Serizawa and Dr. Graham return.

I don't really know if saying Biollante died is the correct wording, I saw it more as she beat Godzilla and left. Perhaps since Godzilla was defeated and the g cell experimentation was over Erika was finally at peace and could move on.

When your spirit is trapped inside a monster, the only peace you'll have is when the thing dies. Not the best example but, look at Tommy in pumpkinhead 2. His soul trapped in the monster to get revenge on the ones who killed him and on the ones who hurt ms. Olsey. The only way his spirit could rest was getting his revenge and afterwards, leaving behind the monster. 

Not to mention, Biollante' s cells along with Godzillas went into space before Mothra did thus Spacegodzilla was born.  If Biollante is the winner, how and why would she scream in pain and eventually disintegrate? 

Plus, she had her chance to retaliate but couldn't. Godzilla knew she was done. His temperature may have rose, but he still waited on her to see if she was going to do anything or not. After she didn't, he walked away to the water to cool himself back down. He starred at her for at least 5 seconds before doing so.