
Destroyah-x
MemberMothra LarvaeMay-20-2014 9:36 AMTo begin, I think Gareth Edwards deserves much credit for the outlook of the new Godzilla and the MUTOs. However at the same time, both fans and non-fans had issues with Godzilla in a number of areas, despite it being a huge hit for now.
To be honest, even after I have watched the movie and it's been days since, scenes of the movie kept replaying in my mind, and it just didn't feel complete. Something seems to be missing, I don't know if any of you guys are also feeling the same way about Godzilla 2014. There were issues in Godzilla 2014 that kept me thinking about how the movie would have played out if these issues were improved upon. Has Gareth Edwards succeeded in making us look forward to a Godzilla sequel because he deliberately made the show feel incomplete? Or was it just plain oversight on his part on some issues that made it feel lacking in substance? It was good overall, but somehow upon leaving the theatre, something I felt is missing is the lack of a strong tone/depth to end Godzilla 2014 with.
My focus is actually on Godzilla and the MUTOs, as there were really some key areas that Gareth Edwards could have explored to leave an even bigger impression on the audiences. I'll start with Godzilla first.
Godzilla:
I say Gareth Edwards and his team nailed it on this one. The look and immensity of Godzilla really goes down well. I could see that Godzilla was designed in such a way that his scales were crocodilian-like, which made it believable that it could have existed. (who knows) Godzilla could even be considered a really ancient ancestor of the crocodile species? You add that sense of realism along with his majestic roar and it is really epic, and I think that's the best Godzilla roar I've ever heard.
The issues:
1) I think disappointment with Godzilla stems from the fact that throughout the course of marketing the movie especially during the initial stages, Godzilla was portrayed as a "Destroyer of Worlds". Many early scenes suggested an apocalyse for mankind, or facing Godzilla's wrath, which led people to incline their expectations of Godzilla in this direction, similar to the dark tonality of the 1954 verson. After watching the movie, its clear that Godzilla is nowhere near such a portrayal, and he turns out to be sort of a hero/anti-hero.
2) Godzilla's portrayal as a Force of Nature is fine, provided they actually stick to his animalistic instincts, but in the movie, Godzilla is being almost too 'courteous' with the humans, that apart from just tearing apart the Golden Gate Bridge, you do not actually see Godzilla kill any humans on sight. It doesn't help at all that Godzilla made no response to the attacks of the military which felt very unrealistic. To put it in this perspective, even for a human, if you are bitten by a swarm of ants coming at your feet, (sure, ants can't kill you but) the natural instinct would be to swat them off to or kill them. For Godzilla not to do that to the humans in the face of projectiles coming at him? - its really surprising that he did nothing. It's as if Godzilla has this consciousness in him that humans do not deserved to be killed, which to me, is one step in the wrong direction if Godzilla is supposed to be a Force to be reckoned with. Going forward, humans will no longer fear Godzilla because he appears to be on the side of the them. So again, we get another misportrayal - He isn't a destroyer of worlds, nor is he an anti-hero. He's now a kind heroic monster like Gamera? I mean even natural forces of Nature like real tsunamis, earthquakes and typhoons do not discern between humans and what to wreck. This portrayal of Godzilla now would completely detract from the theme of showcasing the horrors of nuclear power.
For these two points mentioned above, I can understand why some people are clearly displeased with the movie, and felt misled. I personally think Godzilla is a bit too kind in this movie, which does not benefit his reputation.
The MUTOS
I think the MUTOs are a masterpiece in a league of their own, and certainly very well-designed. In fact they just made it to the top of my favorite list of Godzilla adversaries, alongside Biollante, Mothra & Battra. When the MUTOs first demonstrated their ability to project EMPs, I thought it was a really cool idea, which is devastating to humans and their technology, and you do realize with such an ability, the MUTOs could literally eat the nuclear-powered Jaegers in Pacific Rim for lunch, and render even the more powerful Mark-4 & 5 Jaegers to nothing but statues. While I have no complains about the MUTOs, there were some areas that Gareth E. could have capitalized on the MUTOs to better demonstrate their prowess.
The issues:
1) During the scene when the flying MUTO emerged from the Janjira site, an earthquake was reported. My thought was, if the MUTO could project an EMP so wide that it covers an area of 5 miles, surely it must have the ability to create a small earthquake of sorts with its claws. I thought it would have been very appropriate if Gareth E. associated the MUTOs with the ability to shatter the ground and create earthquakes, which would have made them so much more powerful. If the Male MUTO had no such ability, surely the Female MUTO, given its size should have the means to do so. However the ability to create an earthquake was surprisingly not accorded to the MUTOs. I would like to think of the MUTOs as gigantic versions of present-day Mantis Shrimps, where the claws may appear ordinary, but they pack a tremendous punch when used for attacking.
2) The reason why I felt it necessary to project the MUTOs' power was because clearly there were people saying that they felt Godzilla was ridiculously weak against the MUTOs, which didn't make sense since Godzilla could take on kiloton nuclear bombs right in the face in 1954, while here, Godzilla was collapsing to the pummelling of the MUTOs, which only have EMP capabilities. I thought if Gareth E. had demonstrated the MUTOs' ability to shatter the ground and create earthquakes with their claws to disrupt Godzilla's movements, it would have made the fighting scenes more epic, and at the same time, the pain felt by Godzilla would have been more apparent to the audience.
My Conclusion:
If Godzilla isn't the Destroyer of Worlds, but a Force of Nature, then make it convincing enough to show he is one, because right now he is neither, nor is he an anti-hero. He just seems like a good old monster now. If the MUTOs had demonstrated more devastating attacks, the fight scenes would have been really epic, and Godzilla would also appear more powerful against his foes. In this way, its a two-way benefit for both Godzilla and the MUTOs' image.
Thank you if you have taken the time to read up to this point, it would be nice to hear from you people how you think Godzilla or the MUTOs could have been portrayed to make it a better movie. :)
" Your kind feared the Darkness. "

deadpickle
MemberMothra LarvaeMay-20-2014 2:04 PMI just relized that the Male MUTO is the only one who uses EMP. I dont remember seeing the female ever use it. Maybe that will explain why Godzilla had such trouble when they both were together. The male would be fast, agile, and have a stunning EMP, seems like that would be a task for a 355 ft tall lumbering hulk.
Evan123
MemberMothra LarvaeMay-20-2014 2:07 PMI'm pretty sure the female used it! Do you remember the power cutting in the casino as she rampages through Vegas!

Something Real
MemberGodzillaMay-20-2014 2:08 PM
The Weaver
MemberMothra LarvaeMay-20-2014 2:11 PMDEADPICKLE
Actually the female also has EMP, and hers is much more powerful, there was a graph animation showing a bubble covering a huge area around the Female Muto on her journey to San Francisco. This bubble was the reason the nuclear warhead couldn't be transported by air or planes, but only by train.
It's a "plot hole" many people like to poke at, as to why they couldn't just flown the nuclear cargo instead. And they couldn't just risk leaving the weapon as it would lure the female to take it.

Something Real
MemberGodzillaMay-20-2014 2:11 PM
Carl Majors
MemberMothra LarvaeMay-20-2014 2:12 PMSOMETHING REAL: I'm thinking there's always one common ingredient to all these fights that break out on these forums...you! LOL You sure these aren't all somehow your fault? ;-)
I think it's interesting to refer to pre-historic events among animals as "horrifying." I get a kick out of that.
I think the comment about the EMPs from the MUTOs by touch is a warranted one and would have made sense. They probably wouldn't outright fry Godzilla so much as really mess up his nervous system.
The MUTO were pretty poweful too. Don't forget the small one picked up a nuclear sub and carried a few hundred miles (they said was missing in the North Altantic) ..well most nuke subs are at least 300 feet long, so it was bigger than he was...impressive.
Yet, later, we see him get impaled by building material...yep, not too consistent, and yes, I thought of that as soon as it happened.
Yep, that bomb in the intro sure seemed to land right on the big guy...and later he was clearly at least annoyed by the actions on the bridge...I thought it'd have been better if he just plowed through there completely indifferently like we weren't even there...

deadpickle
MemberMothra LarvaeMay-20-2014 2:12 PMThat could have just been from her rambaging though and not her use of any EMP. She did tear a large hole down the Vegas Strip.

Something Real
MemberGodzillaMay-20-2014 2:15 PMEvan123
MemberMothra LarvaeMay-20-2014 2:15 PMI'm pretty sure she possessed and utilised an EMP assault! Look at what THE WEAVER said.

deadpickle
MemberMothra LarvaeMay-20-2014 2:15 PMYes Yes I believe your all right about the females EMP. It was a small scene with lots of plot blocking elements. Oh and I just remembered that she shut down the boat just before Godzilla gave her an atomic kiss.

The Weaver
MemberMothra LarvaeMay-20-2014 2:18 PMSOMETHING REAL
I did thought about that, the idea that those stockpiles just wouldn't last forever. It would still be more than enough to feed whole generations. But in any case, they would be prolonging the inevitable. Even if they'll die off eventually, we all know nature is increadibly ruthless. If she wants you to die, you will stay dead.
:)
Evan123
MemberMothra LarvaeMay-20-2014 2:18 PMOh ya! I forgot about that DEADPICKLE! Good thinking!
Evan123
MemberMothra LarvaeMay-20-2014 2:21 PMTHE WEAVER - they may be able to live for a prolonged period of time without feeding however! Well we might never know! Okay goodnight people!

Something Real
MemberGodzillaMay-20-2014 2:22 PM
The Weaver
MemberMothra LarvaeMay-20-2014 2:23 PMCARL MARJOS
Godzilla didn't stand up because there was a bridge on the way, or because warships were blocking his path. He had to stand up because apperantely (Even though it's actually inacurrate) the waters under the Golden Gate is too shallow for him swim through. After he stood up, he was shot at but left almost immediately.

Carl Majors
MemberMothra LarvaeMay-20-2014 2:24 PMWell, the plot hole was that supposedly we couldn't drop nukes or other bombs (which we can drop from up to 50k ft) but we could fly over and drop HALO jumpers (about 35k ft)...oh well

Carl Majors
MemberMothra LarvaeMay-20-2014 2:29 PMYeah, of course, he'd already swum UNDER the warships, right? I agree with the original point in this thread that, while Godzilla didn't seem overly sympathetic to humans, there was a little too much deference that was made to seem incidental...so he's a gentle giant? Nahh... I think the point is, even if he'd been trying to be careful, he should have wrecked more stuff than he actually did...

Carl Majors
MemberMothra LarvaeMay-20-2014 2:29 PMYeah, of course, he'd already swum UNDER the warships, right? I agree with the original point in this thread that, while Godzilla didn't seem overly sympathetic to humans, there was a little too much deference that was made to seem incidental...so he's a gentle giant? Nahh... I think the point is, even if he'd been trying to be careful, he should have wrecked more stuff than he actually did...

Something Real
MemberGodzillaMay-20-2014 2:33 PM
The Weaver
MemberMothra LarvaeMay-20-2014 2:34 PMCARL MAJORS
Actually, they could have dropped the nukes from air easily. The problem is that the nearest nukes they had were taken. And they didn't have flown them first because as I mentioned, they couldn't have carried them into airstrips, too risky. They had to move it by train and away from the female. After the EMP area has been cleared however, the plane was free to carry soldiers.
They could have taken nukes from other more distant areas, but that required hours of flight, time that the Admiral didn't have, the nearest ones were those two that were captured by the MUTOs.

The Weaver
MemberMothra LarvaeMay-20-2014 2:39 PMCARL MAJORS
Indifference doesn't mean being inconsiderate. Those are two different things. In all animals, they have a certain reflex and senses of avoiding objects that are in the way, instead of smashing them outright. It's realistic. Like walking and happening to see a plant on your road, you don't break through that plant, you go around it.

Carl Majors
MemberMothra LarvaeMay-20-2014 2:43 PMAhh, those things would've been easily done. Nuclear options would've have been made active, on the table, and muntions moving within hours of sighting those things--the military would have presented the President (and only him, no 2-star ever, EVER will have nuke release authority, heck no 4-Star will ever have it) at least 3 viable nuclear attack options for the female. Remember it probably actually took several days time between Japan & San Fran...

Carl Majors
MemberMothra LarvaeMay-20-2014 2:51 PMI agree with your point on animal avoidance and in fact made a similar comment about the same event 2 days ago...my point here is along the lines of what RATEDREX has been expounding on (and losing years of his life) for the past 2 days--that Godzilla, a la 1954, was more than that. He was an ominous terror, made all the more scary by his complete, slow, but "unstoppable force" persona. I think Edwards made the actions justifiable by how he described GZ, I just think some people felt it made the big guy a bit less ominous...and I agree with that somewhat.

The Weaver
MemberMothra LarvaeMay-20-2014 3:07 PMCARL MAJORS
I was kinda talking about the nukes nearest to the female. It stands to reason that we should move all nuclear arsenals away from her. And you can't risk transporting it by air considering she's close.
The world Gareth made is grounded in realism, even if Godzilla is less ominous, he's still increadibly badass.

Carl Majors
MemberMothra LarvaeMay-20-2014 3:45 PMTrue on the realism point, which is why as more time goes on I'm holding Gareth more accountable for some unrealistic things he portrayed militarily.
I agree, they'd have gotten those nukes out of there...and done so days ahead of time...amazing to me also how long they waited to start evacuating SF...

ratedrex
MemberMothra LarvaeMay-20-2014 3:49 PM@Carl Majors, @ Weaver, @ Something Real @ Destroyah X and all the rest of yall:
Here is the bottom line: Whatever powers that the Mutos had, or Godzilla had or what... it wasn't enough to sustain the movie (FOR ME). We can enjoy ourselves with some great debates and conversations, but in my mind, Gareth Edwards didn't do enough.
Maybe he wanted to do more, but the studios didn't have any extra money to allocate, or maybe Edwards wasn't respected enough by the top dogs to give him his way. Whatever the reasons were... Godzilla failed to deliver the promise of greatness.
Hopefully it will break some more box-office records, thereby guaranteeing that the sequel will get the money needed for a kick-ass movie.

Something Real
MemberGodzillaMay-20-2014 3:52 PM
Carl Majors
MemberMothra LarvaeMay-20-2014 3:56 PMSOMETHING REAL: Actually, I heard from a friend, who heard it from a friend that GZ is really sensitiive about how his complexion appears on screen--especially on the right side...
RATEDREX: I'm not sure I understand...could you maybe tell us all one more time?

The Weaver
MemberMothra LarvaeMay-20-2014 4:02 PMSOMETHING REAL
And I'm sure Godzilla wouldn't mind "brushing" aside branches whenever needed, just as he broke through the bridge, cause a tsunami and toppled buildings (with people that have not evacuated) while fighting. If he will walk through a city, he definately doesn't mind stepping on buildings, but I do think he'll ignore skyscrapers, for example.
RATEDREX
A great movie was made, the problem is, and I'm pretty sure this is how it went, is that it was 'forcibly' edited. I have a feeling that the movie slipped out of Gareth's control in post production, and too many relevant scenes were cut (EVEN action CGI ones) in order to constrain the time to exactly 2 hours (In order to fill in more time slots in theaters). That shortened the prologue, Serizawa's background, even the Las Vegas destruction. (The Statue of Liberty shot was not in the movie)
I'm looking forward to the Director's Cut, the real movie must be there.

Carl Majors
MemberMothra LarvaeMay-20-2014 4:05 PMWEAVER: Now comes the part when you get told that, yes the editing was crap, but you don't understand the movie business and Edwards was over his head and it was made too cheaply...waiting...
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